Warriors underpowered in PvP in factions...

Because those builds that you can't beat are terribly vulnerable to other builds. They're gambling that no one will play a build that counters theirs. If they seem to be winning that gamble a lot, maybe you should change your build.

Builds change over time, it's called the meta-game. I can make a necro who crushes warriors with ease, but I'll be useless against any kind of caster spike/degen/denial. Likewise, an interrupt mesmer isn't much use against an iway warrior.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. GW was never meant to be played alone, thus it is based on skill, but not the skill of one single person.

You know you can counter degen also by using healing sig and healing yourself back to life since degen doesnt hit you and the armor penalty doesnt matter. I've been playing warrior in the alliance battles, and apart from a few smart necros I have been able to survive nearly everything the Luxons threw at me, including several hammer warriors, trappers, IW mesmers you name it. I must have died in total maybe 25 times max and most of it was in 1 battle, and got 20k faction. I'm sorry but I think actually warriors pwn too hard in here. Warriors can be built to be self-sustaining with a few stances and healing skills, and still do decent dmg with 3/4 dmg skills.

I do however think that assassins are a joke. They're not doing any dmg worth noticing and they die real fast too in 4 or so hits.

Of course it is true that a lot of warriors just don't know what they're doing. For example I killed 3 warriors on my own yesterday because they kept fighting through gladiators defence. That's just silly But I see a lot of people making kinda newbie mistakes like this. Like using healing sig under heavy ele fire. Taking frenzy in here. Stuff that will get you killed.

I'd prefer to think that I was debating/arguing my claim rather than complaining - I hope at least, that I came out with a different tone than yours.

I actually enjoy scheming up ways to beat those guys that think they're so great because they were up against something they built against -
but I don't like the fact that sometimes they can keep gloating because their build simply can't be beat by a specific job.

Doesn't it give you more satisfaction to defeat a stronger enemy than a weaker one?

I'd love to see the day when anti-whatever build users get beaten by their prey.

worriors are not over powered. I think they are too powerful. the class that is broken right now is the elemental class. that is the class that needs work.

Weaponwise, I may agree (only a lil bit) with the OP. Seems like a lot of other proffessions got twinked on offense while Warriors got...hammers. But defense and group defense, Warriors are and continue to be a force to be reckoned with. Prot Stance and let the group stand near when the enemy is full of mellee fighters. You've basically dropped Aegis+Guardian on the entire team for as long as you stand still. Absolute evil for these Assassin group builds we'll be seeing soon.

Attack stances though, seem a little weak compared to their Prophecies counterparts. Skills are nice, but closer examination makes many of them very expensive, especially with all the Block attack/Evade Attack skills running lose now. Hopefully, skill balances will address these issues and make new skills realise the potential I see in them. but htats all the new Warrior skills have atm: a lot of potential.

EDIT: the degen issue. Everyone is making it sound like you die before you even get to the target. take a tip from the Droks runners if Degen has hit the meta-game; Endure Pain is a great short term heal.

I am really confused here I don't understand your math here at the end of your post. A war has a 2/7 chance of killing someone??? I can't figure out what that is based on at all.

I also don't know how you can shut down a warrior for 15 energy? You can annoy a warrior for a few seconds but you cannot shut him down. For example, a blinding flash spamming ele. Plague touch, CoP or a monk are all that are needed to get rid of the blind. Pretty simple. To keep a warrior shut down it requires someone from your team to pretty much sit on their face and continuously recast the spells/skills that are shutting them down. In the end this takes up a member of your party and far more then 15 energy.

Also, warriors are not restricted due to their energy. They have adrenal skills which require 0 energy and a zelous weapon on them gives phenomonal regen.

I don't see warriors being underpowered at all. In fact I believe that they are the most powerful class in the game. They are the only class that is able to sustain such a high damage out put over an entire match. They can also release nice DPS with an adrenal spike.

Random arena doesn't teach you much of anything about pvp, and it definitely does very little to teach anyone about balance.

the game is balanced...quit complaining...and if you only play random arena then its your own fault; form a group in Heroes Ascent..and align yourself with healing and protection monks...if u cant do that then call on some guildmates, if u cant do that, then start making friends..take it to Team Arenas work out a 4 man team balance it out then take it to HA...Warriors have damn near 100 Armor Level compared to 60(base) that a monk-mesmer-necro-ele gets... and sometimes +10 physical but at the cost of energy--and if your warrior doesnt have enough energy wear Gladiator's armor. Warrior is the only class that gets a Superior Absorbtion- Global negative damage rune at no cost of Health Points....hint out facts of the class before saying its overpowered/underpowered-if conditions is your problem run W/Mo with purge conditions, not very sensible but hey complaining and finding new ways to overcome are the task this game gives you..war/necs with plague touch..just some insights i had

My Uber Tank can stand all of those guys. That's the one build I'll never EVER post until the day I die And in doing so it won't get nefed

Ok so I played 2 hours more pvp tonight. I never said it was the assassins doing me in. Instead its a combo of assassins (conditions), and mesmers (hexes), necros (hexes). The mesmers are waaay overpowered now since adding the new skills, particularly illusion skills.

For example, a blood necro gets life transfer as an elite... well, mesmers now have a regular skill in the illusion category that does -8 health regen. On top of that they added some other massive degen skills. I counted up and with 10 in fast casting, a mesmer can throw down -21 health degen in under 5 seconds. Add a little poison or disease and its over, and maybe one or two ele spikes or warrior hits and its over without a great monk.

So what if I take remove hex, I'm so busy taking the crap off of me that I can't really do much damage.

To put it in perspective, I took in my blood necro who can usually stay alive longer than most other professions. With blood ritual, life transfer, and life siphon I'm regenerating out the wazzzo. Stealing +55, +78, and +63 should keep me floating as well. But my degens still out weighed my regens. With the new skill recurring hex or whatever, these hex puppies about never leave. Plus the mesmers have a new skill that does 30+ damage and causes more health degen if 2 or more hexes are on a player--- not an elite.

I have to figure a way to slow down degens or I'm toast. I suppose a good spiker team would take out mesmers quick, but I'm obviously not teaming with the right folks.

Flick

You non-war players and your god damn assumptions - let's just assume all the war's problems come from conditions and say put in mend ailment or some shit and everything's solved.
(you people are really pissing me off with your condescending "quit your complaining cuz its all good for me, the non-war player", tone)
You do realize that you've only adressed conditions - thats only 1 of 7 problems wars (3 for casters) have to overcome in order to begin doing damage.

So if you look at the numbers, there's still 6 other scenarios where the other guy completely shuts you down.
(yes, I know you can't prepare for every possible problem, but casters only have to worry about 3 (compared to 6).
That's half the problems, just by being another job).

100+ AL? So what? you're protected against 2 (wars, eles) out of 6 jobs - only 1/3 chance of meeting people where your armor actually does something for you - maybe (obsidian flame, burning eles = goodbye armor)...

And is there something wrong with playing RA?
I like to be able to just jump right in and get a quick fix.

Making a balanced party is good and all, but it means nothing in RA -
and you have to admit that seeing an all war party isn't reassuring.

I bet you whine/complain about IWAY all the time, but IWAY is nothing in - guess what? RA...

Hell, if you want proof that wars are underpowered, just try seeing how far you get with an all war party compared with how far you get with an all anything else party.

Or better yet, just count how many times you've had your a** handed to you by a war compared to any other job.
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You people really disgust me.

I give examples to show that wars are inferior, but you just tell me to quit complaining (ad hominem), or
give an obvious solution to only a piece of the problem such as conditions (straw man).

I've already done it all (almost all anyways, with various war builds):
killed stance tanks,
spike and paladin type wars,
trappers,
kiters/runners,
blood necros,
knockdown and ward eles,
edenial mesmers,
healer, smite, and prot monks (guardian is a real b*tch, but doable),
and outlasted mass degen.

Many times, even solo - can't count on that other war to hurt that stance tank unless I use wild blow for him.
This really freakin happened, the freakin other war with his obsidian armor and green sword/shield was bragging how he freakin pwned them (the other team) when the last guy standing was a stance tank ranger who only went down after I chipped in the wild blow.

But, I've yet to beat Ineptitude/clumsiness/spirit_of_failure/other_spirit_of_failure mes/necro,
SS/empathy necro/mes,
IW mes (too rare to justify enchant removal over something else),
dark aura blood/death necros,
or poison/crippling shot rangers (just try and plague touch that cripple away, you'll only lose energy giving away poison that gets reapplied for free, and that's assuming you can even limp close enough to touch them).

So don't go assuming that I don't change my build and putting me in some rank below your know-it-all-but-never-played-war selves.

Warriors are not underpowered. I have seen all warrior parties own before. Besides, warriors already have the highest base DPS of any class in the game, and that is before you even add any skills into the mix. Here's an idea:

Make a warrior monk with the highest armor (100 defense), sup absorb, sup vigor, and a weapon with +30 and the +30 shield. Now put no attack skills in except for adrenal skills, and bring remove hex, purge conditions, and healing breeze. You have a pool of 25 mana to do anything you want with and are basically a tank. Want to know why fighting as a warrior is so frustrating? Because they are so powerful that everyone always tries to shut them down with blind, cripple, or put hexes on them to make them spend time removing them or healing themselves. It's the only defense we have against you. If you were even more powerful then THAT would be an imbalance to the game. Accept that your class has weaknesses, as do all other classes, and learn from it. If you don't believe me, try playing as a mesmer or an elementalist for a little bit. You would be surprised how quickly they can be torn up by warriors.

A Pure Assassin Prime will rip open just about ANY class on the battlefeild, so long as said Assassin resigns themselves that it will probably be a one way trip.

Once you realize that your Assassin primary will not survive more then 10-35 seconds in a bad situation, you can kill anyone; and then you will die, but your team will be better for your sacrifice.

Iron Palm + Mantis Touch + Twisting Fangs = Death to 90% of my targets, works best on casters.

Viper's Defense + Caltrops, cripple and poisons a pursuing melee.

Average rate of survival after killing targets with 2 or more enemies nearby: 35-40%

Basically what I'm saying is, if the Warrior can survive that initial combo, the Assassin is dead.

But yes, Warriors are underpowered now, to many attack cancelling skills out there.

Warriors are certainly not overpowered in PvP. They do damage, that's all they're required to do, and they do that extremely well. To generalise broadly, the other classes are there to see that the warrior does their job. Which means keeping them clean, and making sure that protections only present minimal problems.

But firstly,
Yes, there is a problem when you base an argument around one arena that is by its nature unequal and does not represent the whole of PvP. You are right when you say that a warrior can be shut down or compromised easily through conditions, hexes and raw damage on occasion. What you are failing to see is that 90% of the time, in all other forms of PvP, where you have the chance to organise a group, the battle revolves around who can keep the warriors clean.
This is because a warrior skillbar that is optimised to deal damage is scarier than everything else-including assassins. It's a fact that a warrior will deal more damage than any other class, when kept clean. Which is why you bring hex removal, condition removal, enchant removal, healing on your other character slots.

In random arena you have 8 slots. Not much can be done with 8 slots, compared to say, 64. As you said, if you counter those seven situations with a skill and bring a res, you're not going to do much attacking. So, in a 4v4 or 8v8 situation where you have control over a team's worth of skills, you can bring enough to ensure that a warrior can just do the damage required to kill people-which is what the warrior class boils down to.

You miss the fact that warriors aren't supposed to remove conditions and hexes from themselves (if they do, they have to spec in their secondary, which is obviously bad because you're detracting from your primary objective)-and the argument that "they should be because I keep getting owned in random arena because I can't do everything" is silly, because if one could do damage, remove hexes and conditions and heal themselves, it would imbalance the rest of the game. They're specialised characters, and should be treated as such.
Self-sufficiency (which is what I presume you want) is anathema to organised PvP (except perhaps on flaggers, but even then a flag build must be made with consideration to the rest of the team)-which is why I can't stress that criticising a class on its performance in random arenas is silly.

Random Arenas are not meant to be taken seriously, and trying to prove something is underpowered in the context of a 1v1 situation (which is what random arena boils down to, as you have no control over your teammates' skills) is again, silly.

Underpowerd?.. what even with the new sentinal armour ?

Im finding this quite difficult to belive, I've been using my current hammer build, but with sentinal armour in TA and, if anything, im finding it a bit over powered.

Even when our monk dropped I was still able to put up a very good fight against and organised team.

As for 12vs12.. some slight adjustments here namley 'I will Survive'..in place of the res signet, this pretty much nullifies the damage any assasins or ranger conditions.

If you think warriors are underpowerd, then you havnt really looked at the whole picture much, or looked in depth at the skills and situations you find yourself in...

As for the skill in Guildwars, well, you can do as much pre-thought into your builds as much as you like... the skill is being aware of your surroundings, thinking quick and reacting fast, putting all this together at the end of the match and asking yourself

"with my current build, was there anything better I could have done on the battle field?"

Usually there are hundreds of things which you could have done better, rather than blaming the skills available to you....

If you've not put much thought into the warriors skills as they are now then you cant be the type of person who thinks with very much depth on the battle field.. nor are you someone who reflects upon it much..

hang on... your a leaver! arnt you?

Hmm, actually meant 2/7 chance of meeting someone you can kill (but, not neccessarily kill) - given that you brought 2 anti-war-hate skills and guessed right.

Pacifism, cripple + poison combo, slowing hex (imagined burden goes up to 21+ secs with mantra of persistence), wards, a block/evade stance, empathy, SS, sympathetic visage, gale, traps, running, HH, Mark of Protection, just about anything that can delay a war's dmg enough so that it can be healed (not that it needed delaying)...

It's still pretty hard to kill a prot monk even with a consecutive swiftchop -> power attack -> executioner -> evicerate -> power attack -> swiftchop at max axe (sup axe rune in an axe helm), and no blocking.

I'm going to quickly pile on. I never going to win any awards for warrior skills, but my sword warrior with standard prophecy skills didn't have any problems in 12v12. I must admit that I had one of the best monks I know healing and an orders guy supporting so my job was really easy: kill really quickly and make people cry. Again, I'm not a great warrior and I was having zero problems with the proper support.

In random arenas I easily solo warriors with a lame IW build. This says much more about RA then it does about my IW build.

More like it says wars are underpowered, if you ask me.
Have you ever seen a war out-damage or out-heal max IW + flurry with healing sig?
Is a war going to block or evade that IW?
Maybe he'll disenchant it after taking dmg for 3 seconds, or disenchant the enchantment stacked on top of it.

My warrior always loses 1v1 to a Cripshot ranger! Warriors are underpowered!


OMG you hear that guys? There are *counters* to warriors in this game! Stop the presses, this is the biggest news event since that guy discovered autoattacking.


I think we can all agree with that.

Peace,
-CxE