Charr leadership, history, motivations, relations with other major races, etc.

Note: This is a Spoiler, for those who have not completed the game, I advise you not to read this.





I've read in the past people questioning the leaders of the Charr, this screenshot proves that the Titans are whom the Charr look up to.



After doing Nolani Academy for about the 6th time, (yes on different characters), I finally decided to go out the front door, and skip on the bonus. I have never looked closely at this burning figure, and since it just looked like a pile of burning wood from the back I never considered it as anything.

This thread kind of turns into a question of the plot in Guild Wars.

I'm confused. What I don't get is the fact that Vizier Khilbron, the ultimate leader of the Titans and Charr, also controls the Mursaat. What I don't also understand is how did the Vizier get such a big hold over Kryta. The Vizier and his forces, were supposed to come from the Northern Province of Drascir, (northern part of Ascalon), this meant that Kryta and the Kingdom of Orr was safe, atleast until after Ascalon fell. After Ascalon had been broken through, the King of Orr had opened the sacred scrolls below in the Catacombs of Arah, and had stopped the Charr from invading the Kingdom of Orr but had sinked the entire peninsula. At the same time, Kryta was considered safe, due to the arrival of Saul D'Alessio, he who had worshiped the Unseen Ones, also known as the Mursaat, after having a vision he had went back to Kryta to form the White Mantle, and had "protected Kryta from the Charr Threat".

So after all of this... I'm guessing Krytan's were decieved by the White Mantle, then the White Mantle were decieved by the Vizier? (The Vizier had us kill White Mantle at one point.)

I have also wondered about this picture, i took it too, it seems that Titans are in Charr fooklore or something? Vizier is powerful also, its really easy when your the undead lich

Ya its a tribute to when Charr fought the titans and they light one whenever you NEVER did the firestarters quest so they started a fire.

Not quite. He's the leader of the Titans in this incarnation, via the Scepter of Orr. However, ancient creatures such as the Seer have knowledge of the Titans in Tyria before, meaning this isn't the first time they were set loose... You'll notice the Titan Source is in dragon's gullet. Most likely the charr either fought against them when they were in Tyria before or ended up somehow worshipping them, hence they create an effigy of a Burning Titan to watch over them.

The mursaat, ancient spellcasters likely determined the nature of the Door of Komalie and began constructing defences against them. Whatever foray brought them to Kryta, they were found by Saul D'allesio, and thus the White mantle were formed in semi-unknowing defence of the door of Komalie.

The charr arrived out of total obscurity, it is possible their development was somehow rapidly forwarded by the arrival of the Titans. After some time, they began the invasion. Khilbron blew up Orr, etc, because the Lich. While undead, he most likely discovered the Flameseeker prophecies and sought to capitalize on the next arrival of the Titans, having knowledge of how their possible relation to the Charr obliterated much of Tyria.

Well that my theory... completely forgot about that effigy. Good post.

EDIT : After using the lump of matter known as my brain, I'm confindent nearly everything I wrote above is nonsense in it's entirety, because doesn't the manual timeline mention the last sighting of the Titans in Tyria is very, very, long ago? I think the likelyhood is that the Charr found a solid, dead Titan and worshipped it as a statue, somewhere in Dragon's Gullet.

The visier doesn't control Kryta or the Mursaat... he controls the undead who where assaulting Kryta, and possibly the Charr through visions/promises of their lost gods, the Titans, return to power in the world.

The visier was always at odds with the Mursaat and Kryta, because they held the Scepter of Orr and the Bloodstones. They stood in the way of his ambitions to unleash the Titans and control them. The problem lies in that the Mursaat weren't nice guys either, so the visier, by being at odds with them, could scoot you along to defeat them for him. However, since both sides were bad guys, which ever one wins the hero still loses.

I'm not sure where you got that the visier controlled the Mursaat...

There are those statue-esque things in presearing... across the wall. Dunno if that means anything though.

Check out the Lore Forum on GWO, they discuss stuff like that there.

But yes, the Charr do worship the Titans, which is rather odd since it seemed not even the Vizier knew what was sealed behind the Door of Komalie. They've also got effigies of a creature that's either the Mursaat or the Lich, it's pretty unclear.

The Vizier retreats behind the Mursaat in Hell. You'd think he would be oblitrated by the Mursaat with such a massive army if he wasn't on their side, so I don't see how he doesn't control, or have an alliance with them.

Thank you for the spoiler warning

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. There are no Mursaat in Hell's Precipice and it's stated quite clearly that the Mursaat were guarding the Door of Komalie. Khilbron wanted to open the Door so he could release and control the Titans. So the Mursaat and Khilbron have opposite goals and are enemies.

I came into this topic expecting to see Charr with skirts and pompoms.

Where does this take place? I've never seen that.

Anyway, I agree with alot of what Avarre said. Also, Avarre, they timeline is talking about those gigantic skeletons you see in Dragon's Gullet and in the Desert. Those aren't titans, they are referred to as the Great Beasts.

It would seem most likely that the Charr worshipped (Atleast the fire based ones) the Titans. And whether this was from battle in the past, or just devoute loyalty right away no one knows. What is known is that they're methods are similar. Titans infest an area, the leave no creature alive. Charr do the exact same thing. The Charr and their relationship with the Titans are alot like a native tribe and their gods. Alot of time, tribal societies base their religion off creatures that actually exist. They create statues and likenesses of these animals or other things to give them strength.

As far as Khilborn goes. Not knowing what you're talking about with the Vizier hiding behind the Muursat, I've never witnessed any connection between him and them. He seemed completely determined to have them destroyed so the Door of Komalie would be completely unguarded and easy to open.

One of the things I dont agree with from what Avarre said was the reasoning behind Orr's destruction. There had to be other ways to protect Orr with the Scepter other than blowing it up in the backfire. I'm pretty sure the Vizier knew exactly what he was doing, what that paticular spell would turn him into and what power he would have because of it.

Thinking this way, the Vizier destroyed Orr knowing he would become the Lich, and now has an entire dead country to use as his army while trying to enact the Flameseeker Prophecies. I'm pretty sure he knew all about them before destroying Orr, and it was his plan all along.

Whether the Charr coming there was his doing, or if it simply provided him the opportunity he was waiting for, we cant really be sure. It would be helpful if Anet provided the manuscript of the prophecies.

Seriously though, the quest Last Day Dawns, will paint a good image just who'se in control of these charrs.

What they're getting at about him retreating past the mursaat, is how does he always get in a mursaat infested area, and never get attacked?

He teleports. plain and simple. he just teleports in, and teleports out.

Now, I wanna know more about the seers. they are mursaat i believe, and are against the mursaat for some reason.

So this is just coming to Guru now?

A guy over at GWOnline, I forget his name, has done EXTENSIVE research into this stuff, and made quite a few connections.

His research articles are long reads, but very interesting.

I remember he was proving that the Forgotten Bows and Swords are a lesser 'species' of Mursaat. They spikyness at the back like Mursaat, but do not float. They also have an identical logo on their attire to that of the Mursaat.

Nah, we knew this already since last year. We just didn't want to be rude and rub it in to Uchiha saying "this is old news."

This really belongs in the Druids Overlook section... anyway if memory serves, there's such an effigy in presearing even, if you venture far enough beyond the wall

Several in fact. I know them well.

Yea well here at GWG people tend to not be quite as FANBOI as those at GuildWars Online, where any word against the lauded Anet gets quickly edited out, or just erased all together.
Thank God for a forum where people can actually express their POV without having to worry about the MODS editing out anything they dont agree with, any statements portraying Anet in anything less than glowing terms, which is all too common at GWO.
So if it comes down to me having to wait a year to find out some trivial piece of info(not saying it isnt interesting), Ill wait thanks(GWOFTL).

dude thats a Oakheart on fire, havent you ever gone charr farming in pre sear. They are everywhere.