Help with Paragon Heroes

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Above are the builds I need assistance on. Hayda runs the second bar and GM runs the first bar. Basically, I need your help to tell me weather these are good or bad builds and how to fix them.

This is the build I run:

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Thanks in advance!

*Note* I also run a AotL with protective spirit, aegis, cure hex, and dwayna's sorrow.

Putting 9 into Healing just for a Hard Rez is a waste of attributes.

Fixed that

Motivation is generally subpar. Pumping 9 healing on a paragon when you have signet of return is a waste.

If you want a decent bar (for normal mode), try running something akin to:
12+1+1=14 Command
9+1=10 Spear
9+1=10 Leadership

1 GFTE ("Go for the Eyes!") = energy management
2 Vicious Attack = almost certain deep wound
3 "Stand Your Ground!" = +24 armor while people are casting, knocked down, attacking (i.e. not moving)
4 Optional adrenaline attack (Usually Wild Throw because of high adrenaline cost and utility)
5 Aggressive Refrain
6 "Fall Back!"
7 "Help Me!" / Leader's Comfort
8 "We Shall Return!"/Signet of Return

Armor: Centurion's/Survivor Insignias, Clarity/Vitae, Command, Vigor, Leadership
Spear: Furious Spear of Defense
Shield: R9 Command shield of Fortitude +30HP , -20% blind

Optional can be Defensive Anthem/"Incoming!" but I usually run Empathic Removal if going P/Mo. I find that "Never Surrender!" isn't all that useful since it only works with AoE damage that chips off 25% of the party's HP. The regen activates only if below 75%, and the regen even at high command is only 4. Recuperation is a bit better since it works on allies (minions).

The second bar to complement this would be:

10+1+1 Leadership
11+1 Command
10+1 Spear

1 Anthem of Envy
2 Spear of Lightning
3 Wild Throw/Holy Spear/Spear of Redemption
4 Soldier's Fury/Focused Anger
5 Optional
6 "Fall Back!"
7 Leader's Comfort
8 Signet of Return

GFTE + Anthem of Envy has better synergy than Motivation + Command.

For your bars:
"Find their Weakness!" is a waste of 10 energy since the energy return is 1. I'm also not a big fan of Blazing Spear when you can bring utility like Wild Throw, Holy Spear, Spear of Redemption (use when not using Empathic removal as the elite to remove blind).

If you're running 2 paragons, "Incoming!" is a bad elite since you can bring 2 copies of "Fall Back!".

Also if you want to go motivation, there's only 3 skills worth using really: Song of Restoration, Ballad of Restoration and Signet of Synergy (sort of). Heroes suck with things that require anything beyond "if bleeding then applies cripple/deep wound".

P/
11+1+1 Motivation
11+1 Leadership
8+1 Spear

1 Spear of Lightning
2 Wild Throw
3 Optional
4 Song of Restoration
5 Ballad of Restoration
6 Signet of Synergy
7 Leader's Comfort
8 Signet of Return

Another thing you can try is dumping points in tactics for "Shields Up!" in areas with many rangers, but energy will be extremely tight (kind of like your motivation bar) so I stopped running bars like this now that the main use (Watch Yourself spamming) is gone completely:

P/W
10+1+1 Leadership
11+1 Spear
10 Tactics

1 Spear of Redemption
2 Wild Throw
3 Soldier's Stance/Soldier's Fury
4 Spear of Lightning
5 "To the Limit!" - adrenaline boost (used to use "Watch Yourself!" here pre-nerf)
6 "Shields Up!"
7 Leader's comfort
8 Signet of return

I wouldn't recommend the P/W hero bar anymore.

Above bar forgot to bring an IAS. Thats pretty much essential on any physical that doesnt spam 1/2 attack skills.

Here's what I would use for a command hero:

Spear of Lightning/Vicious Attack
Blazing Spear
"Go For The Eyes"
Elite (Cruel Spear, Anthem of Fury, Soldier's Fury, Stunning Strike, Cautiary Signet)
"Stand your ground"
Anthem of Flame
Aggresive Refrain
Signet of Return

For a Motivation hero:

Spear of Lightning
Blazing Spear
Elite (Song of Purification, Song of Restoration, The Power is Yours}
Ballad of Restoration (Aria in an almost-all-caster party)
Aria of Zeal
Anthem of Flame
Aggressive Refrain
Signet of Return

I don't see a point in Cruel Spear when you have Vicious + GFTE, honestly. I also find anthem of weakness better than anthem of flame since not all things burn.

It's just my opinion though.

Quote: Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I don't see a point in Cruel Spear when you have Vicious + GFTE, honestly. I also find anthem of weakness better than anthem of flame since not all things burn.

It's just my opinion though. AoF is the only way that heroes can maintain AR (and any other refrains you want to bring). Plus, 42 extra damage on an ally's next attack skill is pretty hot (lol... burning, hot?)

Also, you can't really rely at all on heroes using vicious and GFTE together. On a human, that combination would definitely be superior to Cruel Spear, but heroes don't use GFTE with Vicious attack, they just spam both skills when possible.

Song of Purification is also a great skill on heroes. It is immensely useful to have in the party as it is a very powerful party wide condition removal and it allows you to take condition removal off your healers. Heroes also use this skill well. I do take back what I said earlier about heroes using TPiY well... they dont spam it enough.

On a motivation bar, I would, therefore, use either SoR or SoP. If you are using two paragons, finale of restoration and mending refrain (if AoF is being used on the command hero) are decent options as well.

Changed the builds up and followed Life Infusion's instructions and it turned out like this:

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GM's build

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Hayda's build

Anything about these two builds I should change?

First build needs an IAS.

Why Leader's Comfort? Is there a monk in your party?

Bleeding and poison are really meh, especially when you have 2 copies of each (bleeding from yourself, poison from AotL). You should be killing stuff fast, if you allow the degen to be worthwhile you're not killing stuff fast. Anthem of Flame is quite a different story as it keeps AR up and deals its degen damage fast and spread over the party members. I would ditch them altogether except for Death Nova on the AotL.

The second bar doesn't look like it's doing much, especially with 3 attack skills (3s activation Mighty Throw...?). Your para hero isn't there to do dmg by himself (or you would've taken a Channeling rit), but to support your party. 1 Anthem and 1 Shout doesn't justify a para hero imho.

I also wouldn't bring 2x rez on heroes when hhing, as henchies suck but are good at rezzing. If you find yourself wanting the rezzes on heroes it's usually because you should've done the whole thing differently and hero rezzes wouldn't have saved the day regardless (that's my personal experience anyway).

Finale of Restoration is by far the best skill in the motivation line when you're running several paragons in PvE. Why it was not mentioned earlier confounds me.

Quote: Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

Finale of Restoration is by far the best skill in the motivation line when you're running several paragons in PvE. Why it was not mentioned earlier confounds me. I mentioned it :P

Though 2 paragons isnt exactly "several".

I'm not going to say what you should or shouldnt run, but this what I use with my Imbagon, and they may see more use when we get a full hero party.

Commandagon

Motigon

I micro Aggressive Refrain. And both have 12 in Leadership and 14 in Command or Motivation.

Why barbed spear? 3 pips of degen is a waste of a skillslot and it takes away adrenaline from more useful stuff.

I'd run something like spear of redemption/Holy spear/blazing spear/Wild throw

Motivation paragons sucks, they waste a lot of time casting stuff, dont heal big numbers, dont do damage at all and in pve, except few cases, removing hex and conditions is useless since the enemys will cast it again 1 second later.

Push yours paragons straight to damage, put both of then to run this build:

http://www.gwpvx.com/Special:PvXDeco... =Enviar+dados

Pure damage, no waste of time casting stuff but power return 1/4, just call your target and in 5 secs it will die.

You could run a commom imba bar and bring an nec/rt with orders and splinter weapon as third hero. Use monks as henchemans.

PS: try this build if you want to keep playing para/ranger, i use it in pvp (mercile instead blazing ), u can change the elite skill for something better in pve (use zealous spear):

http://www.gwpvx.com/Special:PvXDeco...o=Enviar+dados