Infraction System Feedback.

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Jenn
Jenn
Resigned.
#21
I agree with the people defending the system - not much has changed. If anything, this will allow users to contest the action against their post if they feel that a mod was overzealous, abusing the system, etc. I think it'll also encourage people to make more insightful posts and derail threads less... mainly because they are made aware of their infraction.

My slight concern is with subjectivity; before posts were deleted for not contributing - fine. Now warnings are issued which can be tallied and result in a ban? I think I am understanding this correctly, but if I'm not, apologies. The reason I bring this up is because I had a personal encounter with this new system. I reviewed my post and decided the only fault I made was not being clear with my intentions of the post, but the content was sincere, even if the method in which it was delivered (sarcastic) was not considered appropriate. Perhaps I should have appended my post with a "/notsigned" and then my post "would have contributed."

So all that nonsense said, I think the system should stand, but warnings should only be issued when there is a very clear problem/infraction at hand. The "does not contribute" reason frightens me considering the extreme subjectivity of it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Avarre View Post
If you feel a moderator is not accurate in their actions, report them to an Administrator (or, at least, a supermod). I'd just like to make a quick note that it's impossible to know who deleted posts or issued infractions aside from Ventari's, where mods/admins edit the thread detailing the infraction & punishment. I'm no expert on the Warning System addition, but is there any way to include who issued the warning?
Racthoh
Racthoh
Did I hear 7 heroes?
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by MStarfire Maybe it's just that before this system things SEEMED like they were more easygoing than GWO. This system just exposes the authoritarianism that is definitely present when moderators can hand out seemingly arbitrary infractions, which, according to what I've read, will add up and lead to a ban. Our system has always worked like that for as long as I can remember. From the forum guidelines:

Quote: Originally Posted by Forum Rules and Guidelines 12. Warnings from Administrators/Super Moderators/Moderators

A warning may or may not be issued for violating any of these guidelines. Violations will be reported to the USER NOTES of the individual. If Warnings are sent, it will be delivered through PM’s or in your Closed Thread. We do not allow the discussion of any moderating acts on the boards. If you have a concern or problem please PM or Email an administrator. Taken directly from here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...0.php#Warnings

Infractions are basically usernotes. In the past you may or may not have been informed of a violation. With the infractions you will always be aware of each and every action leading up to a ban. In a nutshell this system takes some of the work off the moderator because an automatic message is directly emailed to you instead of the mod writing out a complete PM.

Quote: Originally Posted by Illfated Fat
My slight concern is with subjectivity; before posts were deleted for not contributing - fine. Now warnings are issued which can be tallied and result in a ban? I think I am understanding this correctly, but if I'm not, apologies. The reason I bring this up is because I had a personal encounter with this new system. I reviewed my post and decided the only fault I made was not being clear with my intentions of the post, but the content was sincere, even if the method in which it was delivered (sarcastic) was not considered appropriate. Perhaps I should have appended my post with a "/notsigned" and then my post "would have contributed." Typically when a new mod signs on they tend to note every single post they delete, get a little trigger happy with the new found sense of control. This new system puts each moderator in that position again and each of us have to learn that not everything has to be documented for future consideration. Hundreds of posts are deleted everyday, not all would be listed in those user's notes. Basically the mods will be re-learning the system; I can only assume a decent majority of infractions given out in the first few days may simply be discarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illfated Fat
I'd just like to make a quick note that it's impossible to know who deleted posts or issued infractions aside from Ventari's, where mods/admins edit the thread detailing the infraction & punishment. I'm no expert on the Warning System addition, but is there any way to include who issued the warning? It is my understanding that this is the intended nature of this feature, much in the same way that any user who was banned would be unaware of who issued the ban. The admins can review any information regarding the infractions much in the same way they can review and, if need be, revoke a banning.

As Avarre said if anyone feels there is an issue get in contact with an admin (Inde specifically) or a super mod who can pass the message along.
I
Inde
Site Contributor
#24
The last 3 posts I just deleted in this thread are so ironic I could cry. Not only were they completely off-topic but this is why, I guess, warnings don't work regardless. I quote from earlier in this thread:

Quote: Originally Posted by Inde
As just a warning though to others who may post in this thread, I will not be discussing individual infractions or warnings you receive. If you have a question on your particular infraction or warning please feel free to PM me and I can give you more information.
fenix
fenix
Major-General Awesome
#25
When I first heard about the new Infraction system, I figured it would be a good way to moderate the forums, in that it allows mods to add a visible 'punishment' to offenses. I had read/heard that a few people had concerns due to the fact that moderators could put an infraction onto an instance that isn't worthy of one, simply because it replaces usernotes (to my understanding?). Since being given one for apparently no reason at all, I can now understand some users concerns. I feel that there should be a standard set for what is worthy of infractions, and what is not.

I'm not going to dispute my infraction here, that's something I'll do in a PM, but I will say that there should definitely be some sort of standard set up so that moderators cannot just throw an infraction at any little offense.
I
Inde
Site Contributor
#26
Insulting other forum members is a valid infraction that can derail conversations, turn into flame wars and is not a minor offense.
Avarre
Avarre
Bubblegum Patrol
#27
I think the views on what constitute 'insulting other members' vary a slight bit.

People have reported posts that call them out for talking nonsense as 'flaming' since I've been a moderator.
HawkofStorms
HawkofStorms
Hall Hero
#28
Yeah Avarre. That is always the difficult line. Many people on these forums don't understand that disagreeing with somebody (for valid reasons) isn't the same as flaming them.

And Inde I agreed with Illfated Fat. How the heck are we supposed to know if a moderator is abusing there power and report them to an administrator if we don't know which moderator to report for abuse of power.

If user responds to a moderator banning them with flames, threats, and personal insults... then ban them again/extend the ban. There is nothing wrong with that.
Fear of a few bad apple users is no reason to not have transparency to avoid moderator abuse.
I
Inde
Site Contributor
#29
HawkofStorms, as I've stated before I do monitor the mod's actions. If someone feels they are being unfairly targeted please bring the matter to me. Knowing the name of the moderator serves no purpose, I am more then happy to deal with the issues and take action. I'm ultimately the one responsible for their actions. And your statement of a "few bad apples" is grossly understated. I get daily emails cursing me out for a simple 24 hour ban. Daily. Without fail. Perhaps I shouldn't mention it, but users do not get bans or extensions for simply voicing their frustration in PM/Email (which yes includes a mountain of cursing). Because I do indeed see something wrong with issuing bans or extending a ban for someone who is merely upset at a warning, infraction or ban.
xRustyx
xRustyx
Banned
#30
@ Inde:

I think the best forward course of action here is to ban as many people as possible for the slightest infraction to build up more hilarious hate mail. Oh wait it seems that is what some undeserving individuals of the mod team are doing, so there will not be much change.
pamelf
pamelf
Forge Runner
#33
I approve of this new system. I got a 3 day ban for apparently +1 posting; but when I got my account back and went through my last posts for the month I couldn't find a single thing I deemed to be non-contributory. As 'on-topic' is entirely subjective I think it will be helpful to see what the mods deem, or don't deem 'on-topic'. I mean ideally I'd like not to be so censored to begin with, but as that is part of the site rules I do think this promotes a much better way of combining the efforts of moderators and users.
Earth
Earth
Always Outnumbered
#34
When someone makes a +1 post we delete that post, which is why you can't see it.
Stop The Storm
Stop The Storm
Keeping DoA Alive
#35
i think youre taking this very seriously myself. infraction points, systems etc etc, what ever happened to just common sense?

if someone is a constant pain in the ass and has no real valid input to the forums, just ip ban, done.

if someone has stepped out of line, just have a word with them? if they continue, ip ban, done.

infraction systems is a bit silly imo, but, your forums!
I
Inde
Site Contributor
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by Stop The Storm
if someone has stepped out of line, just have a word with them? if they continue, ip ban, done. That's exactly what this system does. It sends them word, if they continue it bans them (we don't do an IP ban unless it's very serious). Simple.
pumpkin pie
pumpkin pie
Furnace Stoker
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by Avarre View Post
If you feel a moderator is not accurate in their actions, report them to an Administrator (or, at least, a supermod). if any of them even bother to reply to user's message.


Admin Edit: If you have a question on a post then use the "Report Post" button.
Dzjudz
Dzjudz
Furnace Stoker
#39
I have a question about infractions. I've gotten one for a popsong reference which I understand could've been misunderstood as trolling, so I'm not arguing the merits of the infraction. I'm just wondering what the effects of infractions below banning point (so, having infractions but below 5 points) are? I'm asking this because I started a thread in the Monk section today but got a message that it first had to be approved by a moderator. Is this always the case or is this because I have an infraction linked to my account?
Kattar
Kattar
EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING
#40
No, there are no other effects of an infraction, other than an eventual ban.

Sometimes if you post too many images (like skill tags) or links, the spam catcher flags the thread for moderator approval.