Update - Friday February 9

I agree, except the skill-abusing community would riot. "So what if it's lame and imbalanced if we use 8 [profession]! We want that option to be overpowered!"

And of course, it's clear ANet has no idea how to react to all of this.

Hmm.... this just got me thinking ...

What if Avatar of Grenth said "whenever you hit with an attack, you lose an enchantment. If you lose an enchantment in this way, the stricken opponent loses an enchantment." That could make the skill more energy intense and more niche worthy than mandatory.

Also, what if the Leadership bonus equalled 1 for yourself + each non-Paragon ally in range?

So basically they made all the good stuff so ridiculously expensive so a 2pip profession that there's no way you can use it without constant GTFE spam, which only is possible when you are constantly hitting stuff. Thanks to that, now blind, shield's up and stuff not only reduces DPS but also makes it too energy expensive to spam shouts.

Angelic Bond was killed, Incoming was nerfed again, Stand Your Ground is nerfed the third time(lol), nerfs to spear mastery, which already had damage reduced by 75% if enemy had shields up.

Apparently they have a problem with teams with 6 paragons actually winning, and in the process they nerfed it so hard that it is impossible to meaningfully contribute to the team as a single paragon.

Also paragon now officially has 0 good elites(perhaps focused anger but it is currently bugged). Would be super if anet made good skills like elite Anthem of Disenchanting or something instead of 15 million skills that remove conditions/heal on X skill type. Apparently the way to fixing their design blunders is paved with nerfs, since nerfing a class into total crap is preferable to deleting it(hard to justify all those work hours spent on it if you just delete it )


Yeah well, at least they didn't touch my build.

I think the problem is that they do not leave people time to react to a new flavor. Instead the overdo their nerfs.

They did not nerf IWAY for ages, as it was easily countered.

Now I can think of a similar ways, if not even to say exactly the same ways plus "shields up" to counter Paragon groups. Seems as if also nobody bothered to bring Ulcerous Lungs and other anti-shout skills.


They need to get the idea of balance again. Top or Flop is no fun, and they fail to find the healthy middle ground over and over!

Maybe because they prolong the matches too long, so they nerf them because longer matches apperantly aren't fun :P (allmost every prolonging attribute has been nerfed, from bonding till absorption runes )

Ulcerous lungs causes bleeding, hardly a counter. Roaring winds increases shout cost and is a spirit with a long cooldown and cast time. The only dangerous one is Vocal Minority, which is a hex with a long recharge therefore easy to rip off. There are no real counters.

There's still PVE whining about nerfs, which are far more common.

HA just bit the big one. Bspike and IWAY groups back in force.......

Paragons used to be good. Nerfing 'Incoming!' and 'Stand Your Ground' 3 times is bad, but they nerfed the offense too.... paragon's have almost NO use now unless you run the P/W thumper with Focused Anger and such.

Good thing I got rid of my Pargon PvE character and made a Rit. At least it's not totally hopeless they might revert something by the time the next campaign comes out.

So is NR and it is also about as good of a counter as NR.

100% shutdown of a class aspect is pretty extreme. Imagine spammable AoE pacifism. That's pretty bad.

Also it doesn't need to stay up all the time to be a counter. Apparently Diversion didn't 100% prevent Air of Enchanting smite, but just reducing its potency is enough. Same here, just having this hex up half the time is a strong counter. Also this hex is ward size aoe, so vs teams with 5 paragons or so, it needs to be cleaned off several paragons every 20 sec, not a trivial task.

Severly underestimated skill vs mass paragons.

Btw I can give you next 2 anet's nerfs: GTFE -> 6 adren cost and Aggressive Refrain -> 15% IAS

I've been defending the paragon rebalances up til now, but honestly this is getting silly. I understand the need to maintain balance for PvP but they need to throw PvE paragons a bone or two.

Makes sense. I mean, more than one "commander" shouting orders? It doesn't.


Urm, Divert Hexes? Blessed Light? Expel Hexes? A slew of hex removals that are under 20 seconds recharge.

On the 8v8 Note, it's fantastic, the resurgeance of old builds are quite enjoyable and the variety/activity is just BUSTLING

I do hope it stays...sure iWay and Bloodspike are back..but so are so many others

I agree with Shanaeri. I think limiting the number of class in a team is the way to go for PVP. This way the PVEr's would still get the same or almost the same skill they were comfortable using and the PVP aspect would still be balanced without hampering the skills effect too much for PVE use. So everybody or the majority will be happy

Ya im in favor of the the limit of classes in the pvp game of gvg and Ha great idea no more gimicky stuff just great skills vs great skills bar.

Why would PVE'ers even bother to try new professions in chapter 4?? After a few months there is not much left of those chars...

man I just dont get it..........they have us do their playtesting for them (and spin it as an 'event'), then they pull some crap like this, totally ruining a pve class. This after ruining assassin in pve.

I understand it has something to do with HA (which I couldn't care less about), but they are taking all the fun out of the PvE aspect

What player feedback? I'm a player yet I wasn't asked for any feedback!

Just what is the point of introducing new classes with a campaign if all you're going to do is nerf them out of the game a few months down the line? Or is it another case of listening to PvP players and totally ignoring the PvE players?

There was plenty of opportunity to give feedback. I'm not fan of Anets communication policy, but there was opportunity this time. The fact that you were wilfully ignorant to things happening in Guild Wars is your own fault.